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      About some contribution from the XMPP community to misogyny

      purplebeetroot · pubsub.movim.eu / make-xmpp-antifacist-again · Monday, 8 March, 2021 - 18:40 edit · 34 minutes · 6 visibility

    A personal reflection about misogynists, religious fanatics, fascists, trolls and xmpp's contribution to supremacy and victim blaming.

    This is a call in, for anyone willingly to improve the present state of culture that is taking possibilities that are inherent to XMPP as an open standard hostage by the culture they surround it with. I'm taking you at the hand to take a look at parts that are deeply rotten, indeed you could call it a cultural standard deeply linked to patriarchy and white supremacy. Most of the text that follows, I wrote while feeling anger and sadness. So feel invited, to keep this in mind when judging what will follow: Don't make me cry, and I won't shoot back with my tears.

    Taiwanese designer Yi-Fei-Chen is showing off her

    Some of my thoughts are better explained then others. And remember, it's only the perspective of one person. I encourage you to also read the blogpost from the search.jabber.network operator on the matter. At the moment writing this, I have not read it. For the reason that I might be very short in time for the next days/weeks (who knows), I just leave this text here to be discovered. Once the post from them is online, (and I find the time) I will link it here.

    Before I'll start showing you the shit that is right in front of your nose, please take into consideration, that the person pointing out the shit is not necessary responsible for cleaning it up, nor being the shit themselves. I devote time an energy, to help you understand where some shit is positioned, and how it will remain there if you insist: Do nothing, will solve the issue. Maybe, but not if it's in the middle of the table you meet with friends and randoms to have a dinner.

    Before you get into the mute of: Buuuuh, cancel culture. Buuuh, SJW. (yes a couple of people reacted just like that), I'm not requesting to cancel, I am requesting responsibility and accountability and that you stop canceling me for requesting that. If you cancel this request, well that's your choice, but don't blame me for the consequences.

    a fire fighter sprinkling water over fire and a white person coming by to say "So sad to see so much violence on both sides of the conflict

    Some of you, who follow the XMPP development, might have noticed that there's currently some conflicts between multiple XMPP service provider. It's a conflict that existed since long, I just happened to point the finger on it until it's becoming visible for a wider audience. I'm doing this actually since some months. Nearly anyone cared.

    several people say "I

    Content Warning:

    the following contains harassment, misogyny, suicide related stuff and more.

    Until recently. Until I needed to read suggestions to better kill myself, to better go to the kitchen because it takes away rebellious hormones, to shut up faggot, god made 2 gender, something about jews and PoC's.... I think you get the point. And if you don't believe me, I'll share backlogs of such chats in the next blogpost. If you want to get notified by email, you can subscribe to this list (max frequency of mails that I might send out will be 6-12 mails per year, but probably only 3)

    See, I'm not only a suicide survivor, but also someone that simply does not fit into binary gender roles. Since I'm born, some people would read me as female others as male. I'm Enby and even so I'd wish I could say I don't care about your opinion, I can't and it is harmful to me.

    This occurred in a chat room, that appears first if you search for "news" via a xmpp discovery service. It's a space "many" (most people don't care about xmpp, so it's not really that many), will discover when getting in contact with xmpp. So it obviously does not only target me, but everyone that cannot identify with a white-patriarchal dominating culture that fits you because you're a white-cis-male that doesn't really care about (structural) violence others are targeted with.

    images shows 2 groups, one groups holds "we are literally nazis" and swastika sign, the other group holds sign "nazis are obviously bad". In the middle there stands a white person that believes to be clever saying "why so much violence on both sites

    I reported to an Admin of that chat room. They said they are fine with such content, and will only act if it long term targeted harassment. Well, people are long term targeted by this abusive white-patrical culture, not since the existence of xmpp, but since centuries.

    As a means to make sure they cannot use the argument "but I'm just a overwhelmed moderator, I didn't mean it like that, and I wish I could do more but my day job doesn't allow me that." I wrote: "Ok, let's probe the values of the admin." (the wording might have been slightly different) And then writing a couple of random letters into the room. I was banned in seconds. (it could be that this was an automated process, I'm unsure. But while the admin continued to hang out in the room, and later made fun about me criticizing their support for harassment, they are obviously very aware of what they do, and they do have the time and resources to moderate such content. It is just, that for political reasons, they are in favor of supporting misogyny and a like.)

    white person with maga hat and pepe t-shirt says "but they are only ironical dead, You just don

    As a next step I considered requesting support in a xmpp working group that is dedicated to improve the user experience to those new to xmpp, by serving an easy entry point.

    I didn't wanted to make it just about me and this specific case, so I started with asking:

    "Sorry if this was already discussed... : How to deal with fascists and white supremacist that are looking for censorship resistance solutions?" I followed this with a short explanation how important it is to be explicit, so that it is clear that a fascist weaponized rhetoric, that is intellectual enough to apply patterns commonly used to populize conspiracy theories, doesn't feel invited to gamify and sneak invisibly (to anyone not aware of their dog whistles around the policies with their clique.

    Someone that, let's call them K., insisted there is no issue. I believed in their openness to listen and learn from my experience. They did a bid of mansplaining (I use that word, because I don't know any other that describes the same, but gender neutral.), and told me this issue is just unrelated to the "joinjabber" working group. (on joinjabber's (outdated) webpage a server open to fascists is promoted). And that just after I devoted my time and energy to explain, how it is related. I kept calm and friendly, even so I've just got harassed and basically claiming we shouldn't care about. But it doesn't end here. K. continues how "...we [don't] have the resources to "police" other server admin's moderation policy."

    I replied:

    "I'm doing this on a regular basis. Some people don't like me because of this."

    K. then comes back at me with trying to invisibilize this care work as being unproductive, and how easy it is to just complain. I've been told I'm a faggot that should kill themselves. Of course I complain. And of course I'm angry at people that mansplaining me, how this is an issue "we" cannot solve, because of missing resources, to then just come back in my face when I actually spend resources on it, that it is unproductive.

    meme this is fine, showing person surrounded by fire saying we can

    After I've been all time very calm, I changed tone, so that K. has a chance to notice they are crossing a red line. You might argue, using a harsh tone is not justified and will lead to toxic communication culture. I insist, that a healthy community has space for victims of violence to:

    1. express their anger (btw: I always do this while reasoning it. I'm never just rant, but even that's ok imho)
    2. ask for support
    3. express their anger towards specific individuals if they downplay, try to sweep it under the table, claim it's not possible to solve while ignoring suggestions to actually solve it, doing lots of mansplaining, so basically just what K. did/does

    Indeed, the claim that it's important to invisabalize our emotions, or only share them in a rational manner is actually part of toxic masculinity. If a community sets this as a standard, victim blaming is inevitable. Furthermore, it will always push out the most vulnerable, that simply can't keep calm under specific situation they are exposed to. The question is also, why was it me that needed to tell K. to stop with their misogynist irrationality. Why is it more justified and accepted to behave misogynist (claiming misogyny and similar as to be offtopic while trying to silence the voice that aims to make the connection how it is related with joinjabber and how it could be worked towards improving it...yes, indeed that is part of misogynist culture. And I'm not comfortable with this.)

    That is because "we" (I don't), have adopted a social code that structurally advantages those with more privileges in society, by taking their communication method as a standard and requesting everyone else to model after that. Your success is measured how close you are to this standard. Having an emotional break down, or being generally under higher stress because based on the identity that society devoted to you at birth, you will face more violence and that on a daily basis. Violence that you have to cope with. Everyday. Staying calm is easy if you're privileged enough. I'm outraged and sad.

    an image symbolizing a person being pushed down to the ground by systemic opression

    K. didn't stopped. They continued with mansplaining, downplaying the situation, continuing with calling that it's worthless to point out those issue... I told them multiple times to stop engaging on the topic until they took the time to reflect on it. They continued.

    A moderator showed up, and in respect to their feelings I turned away from the keyboard.

    Coming back to the screen, K. (and they did that already multiple times before using different words to downplay and so forth) claimed, that me raising awareness about fascists and fascists supporter, was "trolling of server operators" that "has resulted in search.jabber.network being turned off". Victim blaming at it's best.

    Continuous downplaying that violence and continuous claiming that me raising awareness about the situation is the real issue, is nothing less then misogyny. It is violent, and I insist that K. should either reflect on that, or Shut up on matters, that are not structurally targeting their identity (what ever that is, white-cis-male?). I demand from the community of joinjabber to take care that K. will reflects on the matter. I do not want to be further involved with K. on this specific matter. All I have to say to K. is: Learn to undo your toxic masculinity. (obviously, K. can have any gender they want. But that doesn't free themselves of behavioral adoption, that is a key element of patriarchy. And yes I wish I would know a word that describes such pattern in a gender neutral way, so that it doesn't sound as making assumptions about ones gender, but I don't. I'm happy to receive feedback to improve on that matter)

    In solidarity to abolish Patriarchy!!!

    You managed to read until here? Thank you for listening! While this is obviously a complex topic, you might like to take a break from reading, let it sit for a moment and reflect on a hot cup of tea, a walk, or what every you prefer.

    a fragile heard being hold by friendly and kind hands

    You could come back any moment later to continue reading the rest. If you feel you capacity enough to continue reading, here you go:

    "Why are you demanding so much, that's not kind of you!"

    Why do you demand in first place I should remain calm, in a situation where I've just got told to kill myself...and other things? I will never! I will always push back to make visible what prior was hidden for the privileged. And it works. Several server operators seem to take note on the seriousness of the issue and position themselves based on their political believe.

    If read while this was unfolding in the server operator chat room, you would noticed something that looks like a polarization that didn't existed prior, that I was just causing. It always existed, it was just not visible to you.

    If you confront, if you force people to make the politics they are working towards visible, you regularly notice some crawling out from the hidden and insist how bad it was from "social justice warriors" (a dog wistle) to deplatform Trump and that people like me should be banned to protect what they call is "free speech". It gives you the possibility to identify neo-fascist elements. People with whom you've been organizing prior side by side. They will talk you all day into how important free speech is, while they actually never cared about it. It's just a political tool they weaponize. How could you ever believe, that people who organize towards genocide and mass deportation care about free speech? They don't. They just want you to believe that it's important and a high moral obligation to spread their content, to host infrastructure for them, to devote your time and resources to support their cause.

    nobel sacrifice

    And if you do, they badge you as someone of higher moral standard. It's a gameplay on an ideology commonly reffed as liberalism (you might devote different names to it, but let's try to not make it about that). And if you are, I'm with you, that we should have as much freedom as possible. That there shouldn't be a monopoly on what speech is allowed and what not. I'm all for free speech but not if comes on the cost of freedom itself, if it's only a weaponized tool disguised as free speech to organize oppression. What's so free about organizing mass deportation, feminize, anti-blackness, colonialism...

    What does freedom mean to you, if it can also mean a totalitarian oppression of the same? Some, such as Karl Propper (a liberal author, and that's the reason I'm referring to, even so I disagree with their analysis), describes this as Paradox of tolerance.

    > "Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance. The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant." I'm not following Karl Popper's analysis here, cause it's only paradoxical if the meaning of tolerance is isolated in the meaning of individualism. Those that systemically oppress can only do so, if they receive support by all those that believe it's not their struggle. Supporting systemic oppression has nothing to do with tolerance, at least by the definition I go with. But you don't need to follow that mind stretch, as long as you come to the conclusion that systemic oppression is something we need to care about.

    relax, pause. reflect listen, lern

    Unfortunate, many don't and they use their resources to support systemic oppression. Be this intentional or unintentional, the results matter!

    I’ll take the operator of the search.jabber.network service and their reaction to my request as an example, not to suggest that the problem I'm describing is just the wrong doing of a single individual, but to go from the abstract back to the concrete, as this is helps to identify and understand issues I prior described only abstract. I also take them as an example instead of one of those that I do identify as neo-fascists or at least their sympathizer, because he seems to be a reasonable human being, someone that is capable of adopting new behavior once they notice something went to far on the wrong road. Most fascists aren't willing to do that, and I'm not interested in wasting my time holding their hand, if all they aim for is total annihilation of people like me. (btw: while writing theses lines, the s.j.n operator wrote me a private message, an offer to clear up this conflict. I'm thankful for that! I'm really are. And in case this sounds like I have personal grievance in specific against them, that is absolutely not the case. It is the culture that surrounds xmpp that I'm so troubled with. It's about many of you, but I'm not going to write an analysis that's going to be even longer then the one you're reading now)

    So let's go back to the story. Remember the conversation with K.? Let's attach the story line back to that spot, just right there where K. insisted in downplaying misogyny and that it's an issue "we" shouldn't care about, because "we" don't have the resources to do that. The irony of that: Conflicts that you insist to sweep under the table, will take much more resources away from anyone, as soon as you loose control of doing so. We could have solved this directly, without all the noise that was required to make you notice, that the shit was always on the table, you just happened to not believe those that pointed it out. But isn't it harassment to mention K. so often? No, telling misogynist to shut up is an act to counter harassment. Calling me to not do so, is victim blaming and there's nothing you can do to make me stop calling out K., until the moment K. makes their reflection process visible. Oh sure, yeah you're right, I'm angry at K., and I do express this anger. Remember how it's an vital element that patriarchy depends on, to shut down such emotional expression. I described it somewhere at the top of this analysis. If you feel it's helpful for your understanding, take the time and read it again.

    Ok, let's go back to the story:

    While I was looking for support, and it was obvious that this chat room won't give me the output I was looking for, I followed the suggestion (I don't remember who it was, maybe pep? Anyway thank you, who ever you are!) to reach out to the admin of the server in question. I got guided from one room to another until I reached the XMPP service Operator chat room. I wrote the following:

    "Hi there, I heard the admin of 404.city is active/lurking here.

    I want to point out that the World News MUC is a home of fascists and alike. The admins are aware of this and are actively moderating the room. They banned me, for confronting their values, rather then the fascists. I request that the admin of 404.city deletes the room or give me (or an individual that you trust) admin rights for the room and permanently ban the admin responsible and the fash users

    This room is the first room that appears if you search for news with search.jabber.network (don't remember if that's the correct url)"

    Guess what? The first 2 people that replied said either I'm the one that's discriminating, or that they don't care, because they don't want to care about morals. So again, I ask for support and people engage through communication methods, that easily results in silencing victims, if they don't have the strengths at that moment to push back, to make sure it will not be wiped under the table.

    First person that goes by the name moparisthebest replied:

    "It's also possible they don't care to discriminate on legal types of speech"

    Usually I'd say it's a waste of breast to engage with such content, but since several individuals in that room, share this ideological position, I'll give it a short response here:

    Being against discrimination is not the same as being for discrimination. It's hard to believe that you have to tell this to people.


    I've been discriminated, harassed and banned from the channel. And the first response I receive is someone claiming that I'm the one discriminating. What mental stretch. But there's more you need to watch out for. It's the word "possible". It makes the narrative sound vague enough, so if you take it literally it ain't be so far from logic. Conspiracy theorist commonly use this pattern to make their ideas sound if true, or at least more difficult to questioning, and fascists commonly use it to shift the overtone window. I'm not going into a debate, that moparisthebest could be any of such (I actually don't believe so), but I'd like to remember the beginning of this analysis. Remember how it started with me writing a message into the "joinjabber" chat room, that asked: - about peoples strategy to deal with fascists and alike - to be aware how patterns commonly used by conspiracy theories, can easily sneak around policy guides if they remain to vague

    Claiming that holding abusers accountable to be the real discrimination, is nothing more then: 1. victim blaming 2. supporting abuse

    All they needed to do, so you accept this narrative as something you probably describe as civilized discourse (btw: remember how emperors divided people in barbarian and civilians as a means to de-humanize the one and make the other believe they are superior, so they could more easily extend their power over spaces inhabited by "barbarians"?) is: be vague without changing anything of the meaning they carry along.

    The second person that replied to my request for support was the search.jabber.network.service (side note: while I reached this part of the text, he already reached out to me. We are in private contact and as far as I'm concerned it is in a friendly mutual respecting manner. I deeply appreciate this. While they reflected their behavior already and apologized, I still believe it's useful to share my perspective on the aspects that happened prior me and them getting along with each other, because it shows an behavioral pattern that is unfortunate quite common. I wish we will try to collectively work to undo such behavior, to not repeat the same in future. Oh, let me just drop this short side note: I have run multiple times into people within xmpp MUC's, that claimed this sort of carework that I'm doing, is no real work. Sure, all this reflection that I was pressuring people to do, just magically happened by itself. :-P. If I find the energy and motivation, I might write a separate blogpost that will focus on that aspect, in case people are interested in me doing this work.)

    Sorry for the the distraction, were was I? Ah, yeah right. So I asked in the Server Operator chat room for help because of misogyny and so forth, and the second person that replied was the s.j.n service operator. He hosts an xmpp chat room discovery service.

    When reading the following, remember that this is a reply to me pointing out a chat room that is home for fascists and alike listed first if you search for "news".

    His key points in their reply: - I don't moderate because I don't want to moderate - I prefer shutting down my own service, then to moderate it - I don't differentiate between good/bad behavior - If you want me to change, fill out a legal order against me

    In their own words:

    "I am not inclined to censor the list on s.j.n, because frankly that’s not a job I want to do and I’d rather shut the listing down than doing that. if you want something removed, go through the authorities I don’t have enough time and moral superiority on my hand to figure out what is "right" or "good" to have on there and what is not. While there may be clear-cut cases, some are blurry and I prefer to not get on the slippery slope."

    It is ok, to not have the time or skills to moderate. But I don't believe that this can be an excuse to actually welcome fascists. I think what is important to clear out directly from the beginning before diving deeper into it:

    The position that the s.j.n operator takes on the matter is taking a very clear position. It is: going with the status quo, what ever that will be and being supportive to the same. In this specific case it is: I am ok to promote chat rooms, that harass you, and are filled with neo-fascists.

    That is not a neutral position. It is important to acknowledge, that denying victims support, while at the same giving support to the abuser, has nothing to do with avoiding some logical fallacies (you named slippery slope), but is one by itself. I don't know the reasons they chosen this position, but is one commonly chosen in spaces dominated by white-cis-males under patriarchal culture. There are multiple reasons for that, one is that supporting status quo tends to advantage those the most, that benefited prior already most. And that confronting this status quo, will inevitable also be an internal confrontation, and that can be uncomfortable.

    I also like to take the time to remember the existence of femicide and white-supremacy. That is nothing that will go away by itself. It requires solidarity with the victims and confrontation with the abuser. Not the opposite, as what happens here.

    It followed some discussion on the matter. One of the arguments s.j.n operator brought up is:

    >> I think unfortunately the real problem is that people’s definition of good is diverging massively

    I responded: No, the real problem is abusive behavior, structural violence and privileged people that feel it's important to not be in solidarity with the victims.

    They also explained that it's easy to spot a fascist (fun fact: they hang out in a MUC together with some of such individuals, seems like without realizing it even), but that it's difficult to differentiate between what's just a joke and what not.

    they just died ironically

    It's never just a joke. It has a political impact and it is weaponized as such. So I replied: "Fascists often disguise them-self as trolls as a strategy to receive more empathy from others. "Aaah, it was only a joke" kind of thing, while being very aware how they are shifting the overtone window. Make some research and you'll find out that they educate themselves on such matter. But sure there will be still the ones that do this for other reasons. Normalizing sexism, normalizing racism and what not...But why care about them more then their victims?"

    Of course it's not just about fascists. But why should we accept an overtone that is dehumanizing entire groups of people, to crawl to the bigwigs and bully the underlings? Always remember how thoughts and ideology lead to action!

    Here's some more parts of our conversation:

    >Who am I to judge where the line is?

    "And yet you make a very clear judgment, to just go with the status quo."

    >I am not trained in making these calls.

    "That is ok. I'm not requesting you to make these calls. Listening to those that you believe have more experience in such matter is only an advice I can give."

    On the next day, s.j.n operator replied to me how they will defiantly not remove that room [that's a home for fascists and alike content] and insisted that I should make a legal case against them if I prefer to have it removed.

    I was very disappointed reading this. It felt like as I was just wasting my time prior, when I took the time to explain why it's important to act on such matter, how they have an responsibility and how they could deal with hate-groups if they don't have the skills and time. They denied all of that.

    I wrote a response that makes clear, that there is no option to solve this issue by avoidance.

    > purplebeetroot, moin! I don’t have much time, but IIRC you said yesterday that it is OK I don’t want to be in the judges role and that I can defer that to people who I consider knowledgebale.

    "Sure thing. That is absolutely ok. (Unless you believe the legal system is the only system in mastering social issues and conflicts)"

    >That’s exactly what I’m doing by saying that you should go through the authorities (to get something removed from s.j.n)

    "This is not ok.

    I disagree with the authority part. As if a king or his judges are the best person to ask. (You don't live in a kingdom, but you also live in a nation where let's say scientists live...)

    Your inactivity is harming me. You have been notified about that. The content in question is against (i don't really care about that aspect, but since you brought it up) the german law (where you are located). If you request me, to go on a legal battle with you, it will leverage the harm your inactivity is causing. You are aware of the following: - 1. you act against the law - 2. you do this on purpose, because it's easier for you - 3. you are partly aware of the harm your inactivity is causing - 4. you have a policy on when to get active with blacklisting rules, but you exclude it, as you state yourself, to ban hate-groups unless judge goes after you. - 5. I'm not requesting you to be the moderator if you do not have the time or skills, I'm requesting that you onboard moderators that are capable of doing so - 6. You have a personal Antony I can get in contact with? - 7. If you deny a process to solve the conflict outside court, the penalty if they find you guilty leverages - 8. I prefer group mediation, but again if I feel forced, I'm open to push as hard as it requires to create change. I do not limit myself to mere complaining to some authorities. - 9. I'm ok in story telling. I'm ok in research. Your behavior can cause negative consequences for the overall xmpp community and give it branding of white-cis-males that are ok with misogyny 10. I'm in for conflict mediation. But do not try to push me, unless you can accept the consequence of your behavior. 11. I like xmpp alot, and several individuals. But I am loyal to nothing but values."

    It worked. The s.j.n operator reached out to me in private, the site was temporary taken down until they found the time for a minor code change, so that the the room in question would become delisted. I experienced the private conversation as mutual respecting and friendly. I am disappointed that I needed to build up so much pressure, but I'll always accept that we're humans and so will we do miss takes (and I really can't exclude myself from being a human too :-p). If they are honestly dealt with, and tried to undo/improve if possible, (as the s.j.n operator did) I'm in good faith to keep a mutual respecting and friendly communication.

    I'd also like to thank all those that have been supportive for my cause, just to make sure that I'm not at all angry about everything that happens. There have been also signs and clear acts of solidarity.


    Unfortunate I do not share this observation with the behavior M. has confronted me. And just to make this also clear from the beginning: It's a behavior that is commonly present, and I'll use M. just as an example so we can talk about a concrete case, rather then something abstract.

    M. is lead developer behind a project that aims to make selfhosting of xmpp easier. They are admin in the xmpp Operator chat room. That room, where I asked for support to deal with fascists and alike.

    As they claimed by themselves, they didn't really had the time to catch up on the matter that was discussed in the room. Yet they found the time to publicly chat with those that harassed me, as if nothing happened, and banned me for requesting to stop being welcoming to fascists and alike.

    Have you ever thought about, that it could be uncomfortable to someone to hang out in the same room that's open to fascists? Have you ever thought, how your behavior leads to deplatforming? Right, you all cry about how important it is to not deplattfrom, yet you insist to welcome fascists, and it results in deplatforming of those that don't have the capacity for such.

    an image symbolizing a person being pushed down to the ground by systemic opression

    When I first brought that up, I received responses (not by M.) such as: we should better ban you! When I brought it up the second time (maybe I did it more often, I can't remember clearly), M. banned me under the disguise of: this is not related to xmpp hosting. Of course it is. Because if you're explicitly supporting fascists maintaining their infrastructure, how can this be, that this is not a matter that should be discussed exactly in the room where this support takes place. Your expressions of not being ok with fascism, misogyny and alike means nothing, if you're actions speak different.

    "But you're just calling everyone you disagree with fascist." No I don't. And I'm getting tiered to see how actual fascists where able to popularize this narrative to an extend that many liberals and alike have adopted it. I mean the sort of people that bully against women, queer people, jews, BIPoc,...that write how they'd like to kill them, or how they should kill themselves, who celebrate Trump, who are into Parler and Gab online culture, who argue that it's against free speech if people wish to counter their efforts to organize genocide. Yes. Genocide. That is what fascism is about. This is what those disgusting individuals are pushing towards. And those individuals are present in the xmpp Operator Muc, with M. as an admin. I'm banned for calling this out.

    Shut up M. with formulating excuses that are nothing more then a rhetoric clownshow, to only justify your misogyny behavior. Reflect first! Then write!

    i,age bright side

    ("but why are you so mean again? I don't think that this is productive." You are right, that I could chosen a different framing to share my thoughts on the matter. I did it because: - I'm angry (remember the part somewhere at the begining, that thing about emotion and how patriarchy invisiblize our emotions, or forces us to only share them in a rational manner or only accepts it is reinforcing patriachy. If you can't remember that, go back to the top) - I want to have this conversation, where you ask me, why I behaved like that, as it invites me to ask you some questions back: Have you asked M. the same question? If not, why haven't you? Are you going to do so? If not, why not? I'm only using words. M. can speak as much as they want, I don't have any control over that. They materialized to shut me down (in that one chat room). They did that after calling them out that I'm extremely uncomfortable to see how fascists receive support in their room.

    To make this very clear: M. have been made aware that they are activity supporting fascists. I am awaiting a response of action from them. I do not care about any kind of apology, as long it is not changing your behavior.

    And to make also this point clear how M. behaves misogynist in this specific case. I've been called to kill myself, something about how women better stand in the kitchen because of rebellious hormones, how they like to kill me and people like me...and more of the very fun stuff.

    M. silenced my request to stop working with people that support such culture. They insisted to continue to work with them. And by that M. sides with the abuser, against the victims, and for that reason I call them out!

    screenshot of a conversation with MattJ

    *it should mean story line. Typo.

    But what do you want?

    • I want that the culture that surrounds the xmpp ecosystem to improve.
    • I want you to reflect on your privileges, and how that effects the decisions you choose, and if you would choose differently, if you'd be living in a neighborhood with racist cops threatening your life. Would you still argue, that it's important to not judge on racism?
    • I want you to reflect, how we are not neutral about our identity, behind whatever username we go and that it will always influence our culture. Not reflecting on it, will not make it go away, it will only advantage a status quo.
    • I want that we are open for a culture where we can call in each other kindly on our miss takes, and that those that are being called in, are thankful for the feedback, as it helps them with personal growth.
    • I want that we reflect for whom we're building this ecosystem and why it matters to us and how our behavior is inline with archiving this goal.
    • I want solidarity above concurrence.
    • I wish that I never ever have to push so hard, to make an issue getting heard. I do not like out calling, and I wish that it wouldn't be required.
    • I want you to reflect, that nearly always when you refer to the narrative "this is neutral", that you're following not logic but an harmful ideology that supports whatever status quo is.
    • I want that those, that are "but but free speech" to read this article: https://crimethinc.com/2017/01/26/this-is-not-a-dialogue-not-just-free-speech-but-freedom-itself
    • I want that those who have no experience in antifascist/feminist/... organizing, that you take the time to listen to those that do.
    • I want that we support self-agency, so that we listen to victims of abuse/harassment/... what kind of support they'd wish, instead of assuming of knowing it the best. ...

    • I also want that we take the time to reflect, how to deal with white-supremacists that are looking for censorship resilience online networks and that are knocking at our door.

    This was actually how this conversation started. And it is, how I will let this blog post end.

    This time I wish it will resolve in a fruitful discourse, rather then a debate if it would be better if we support fascists or do nothing. If you wish to join organisational effort on the matter, say hello at xmpp:chat@joinjabber.org (in case you're afraid by grumpy people like me, most are very kind. So don't worry about that:-)

    No Pasarán - Un Mundo Donde Quepan Muchos Mundos

    Don't be like:

    image presenting a compromise with white-supremacists that call to kill black people, while another groups asks for civil rights

    some notes, that I missed to place within the text above:

    edit1 :(If you wish to join organizational effort on the matter, say hello at xmpp:chat@joinjabber.org (in case you're afraid to run in grumpy me, most part of that group are way kinder in the words they choose. So don't worry on that. :-))

    edit2: I stored somewhere the references to the artists that made the images I included in the blogpost. I can't find it at the moment. Sorry for that. I'll change that once I find the time. In the meantime I'd appreciate in case you know them, if you could comment here.

    edit3: Obviously there's still a lot of depth missing in this post, but while I didn't felt like continuing writing to make it better reflect my believes, I just stopped at one point. So here's something I'd like to clarify in case it's causing you confusion of discomfort: There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a white-cis-male, it's the cultural implications that often come together with it (not that it has to be like that).

    edit4: I also want to emphasize the existence of intersectionalism, that describes how different social and political identities impact and influence each received discrimination and privileges. It popularized to reflect the difference experience of middle class white-cis-women compared to non-cis-women, poorer women, immigrant women, black women, women with disabilities...etc. "For example, a black woman might face discrimination from a business that is not distinctly due to her race (because the business does not discriminate against black men) nor distinctly due to her gender (because the business does not discriminate against white women), but due to a combination of the two factors."

    edit5: I should really add some sources, so that it's easier for you to make deeper research about things that are new to you, that I've mentioned in the text. I'm short in time, so I'll do this some when else. If you don't want to miss on that, you can subscribe to this email list (max frequency of mails that I might send out will be 6-12 mails per year, but probably only 3)

    edit6: Thought I also had the plan to share some examples how fascists and alike consciously weaponize their communication as a means to move towards their goals. I'm currently very short in time and have been post boning to share this article with others because of that since ~3 weeks. Further exploring this topic will need to be either done by a follow up blogpost and/or by others.

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      Carl, tsuntsunxun


    • 28 March, 2021 purplebeetroot

      Feel invited to drop me a comment here. :-)

    • 11 March, 2022 Carl

      Danke für diesen Text

    • 17 May, 2023 slimtux


    • 1 February Dunk

      Wtf did I just read

    • 1 February Dunk

      Freespeech exists. It's their chatroom. If you don't like it make your own. Don't call for censorship, as long as it's legal